Friday, December 2, 2011

I Am The Job Of College Sports

That's not a bad loss in the long run. It's a bad loss because well, we haven't had a good win, and I've had to take 3 gut punches this season already.

Nothing to say. Good effort, great hustle. I'm sorry Tinsley. Bench, you suck.

Sound off.

35 comments:

Peter Nygaard said...

One big 3 doesn't mask a 2-9 performance and 4 turnovers. Still Trick-or-Treat Tinsley.

Anonymous said...

1) Any clue when the big guy gets back?

2) JT can't handle the crunch time.

3) FT cost us tonight

AspenVU said...

Freshmen are really bad - KJ acts like he is still playing against high school competitors. Pretty bad when we don't expect them to score and are just happy if they don't turn over?
Glad to see they sat on the bench most of the night
Too bad as both games this week winnable

Andrew Smith said...

1. We made 8 two-point FGs all game. 8.

2. We gave them 16 more shots -- almost 40% more shots — than we got for ourselves.

3. We had more turnovers than buckets from halftime on.

4. We had 60 percent more turnovers than assists.

5. The had more than twice as many offensive rebounds as we did.

6. Worst of all, we still looked much better than we have. That was a pretty good game for this group.

Anonymous said...

It is time to face a cold, hard fact. This team is not good. Wilts in the clutch. Repeated mistakes. Lack of hustle plays on loose balls. No rebounding. Turnovers. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Anonymous said...

I agree with everything said above. However, it's a long season and the addition of festus could really spark this team. Still, ball handling and rediculously lazy passing is a huge concern.

Anonymous said...

The 'Dores problem last year when they had Fes was that they faded in crunch time and lost leads because they couldn't close. The problem this year has been without Fes they can't close out games. There is a good chance I have no idea what I am talking about, but I just don't see how the return of Fes is going to cure what ails the Commodores.

Obviously having Fes on the floor makes Vandy a better team, but it doesn't seem to me that they have been losing because they lack a post presence. The loses appear to be the results of a plethora of turnovers, terrible perimeter defense, and a lack of mental fortitude. Fes may be a warrior, but he won't defend fast guards and secure possession of the ball.

I am also over the notion that these aren't bad losses. A) the 'Dores don't have a win of which to be proud; B) in March the selection committee won't remember/care a 82-70 loss to Xavier was close for most of the game or that Vandy played a banged-up Louisville team tough; C) as CJF says, there are no moral victories.

I guess my bottom line is please someone explain to what reason there is to believe that this team will be worth watching with something more substantial than "When Fes comes back..."

Anonymous said...

This team is not mentally tough down the stretch. I have said in the past that the point guard position will be exploited by other teams when we play quality teams. We should not have to make a 6-7 forward guard against a point guard late in the game because out point guard can't stray in front of him. Also his lack of a scoring threat or penetration puts too much pressure on the other players to score. A change at point guard is long overdue....Tins is a good guy but not an SEC calibre STARTING point guard....I have said this time and time again and don't really understand why this coaching staff expects Tins to be something that he's not.

Chuck Heston said...

Here's reason to hope that this team is BETTER (not great, but better) than what has been reflected in the comments:

1. Defense is much improved against tough opponents than last year. Last year, if VU played Xavier and Louisville, those games would have been pure shoot-outs.

2. The bench is deeper. I know that's still an issue when the starters sit, but the underclassmen can hold their own in SEC play (again Xavier and L'ville are top-ranked teams, and the bench still had quality time).

3. They've shown toughness. Whatever anyone says, losing in OT to higher-ranked teams is a sign of toughness, not weakness.

Stanimal said...

I agree with all of Chuck's points. I still have faith in these Commodores. How, I'm not sure, but I still do. They're good kids and I know this has been tough on them.

Another thing, if you tweet something at a player disparaging his effort, you are without question a coward. We should NEVER disparage the players personally. Critique the game, the performances, and the Coach, but never disparage the kids. They don't deserve it.

AspenVU said...

Not sure what it means but in both games this week VU controlled the whole situation - except the end. Most teams leading 5 in OT would have won. Hopefully Fes will give them shot in arm - they look tight and like they're trying too hard - go dores!

Andrew Smith said...

"Xavier and L'ville are top-ranked teams, and the bench still had quality time" ???

The team played 225 man minutes last night and the bench accounted for just 24 of them.

They played more minutes against Xavier (41 of 225 min), but in the universe where I was watching the game, the team collapsed the instant the second string hit the floor. (Why did Stallings put them all in at once? Only he knows.)

Anonymous said...

Stanimal, we should never disparage players? Oh, except for Brad, rigjt? Its actually embarrassing how little you guys on this blog know of basketball. Stick to football, everytime you call for KJ you sound like a high functioning short bus attendee. Best defensive team in tje country and Brad made VERY few mistakes. KJ touched the ball twice for 2 turnovers. He, and you "guys," are both embarrassing me, please stop.

literaryman.com said...

There is no reason, ever, to be personally critical of our guys. They play for Vanderbilt, they play for themselves, they play for us, the fans, and it is unacceptable to make any personal digs--ever.

Now, let's talk about what happened last night -- objectively -- and think about what we can take away from it. First of all, Vanderbilt has NEVER beaten as Pitino-coached team (to my knowledge) ever, let alone gone into a packed KFC Center full of insane Kentuckians (no disrepect) screaming their balls off for Vanderbilt to be murdered, boxed up, and shipped home. You could just hear the things they were screaming through my tiny ass TV monitor.

And yet. And yet, we controlled the entire game, yes, the entire game, went in with grit and confidence, and outplayed a much, much quicker Louisville team, wore them down to the final minute, and gave up a pretty sick two-point drive to the hole (sportscenter worthy) that tied the game up at the very last second.

Louisville was LUCKY to escape into overtime. Completely lucky. And if we had executed our free throws, we win this game comfortably by 5 points. On the road. Against an unbeaten sixth-ranked Pitino squad in front of a sold-out crowd. We are insane, as fans, if we expect anything more than a close game in this situation; and what we got was an awesome game, a tough fight, and, really, a few sloppy turnovers and some missed free-throws that cost us the game.

Did you see how tired Brad, JJ, Jeffrey, Stevie T, and Lance looked at the end of the game? They worked their asses off. Worked. Their. Asses off the entire game. They WANTED this victory. Do you hear me not talking about Festus? No disrespect to the big man, but we need to win with who we have right now, and these guys are trying to make this happen any way they can.

Jenkins plays great offensive tonight (still missing a lot of shots, but looked much more controlled with the ball); Taylor still plays lights out D, but misses a few easy layups (still, an improvement since many of the missed layups were off steals / other situations he personally created for himself); Lance was the only player driving to the hole, consistently, and he's only going to get more confident, as he sees that people are too chickenshit to stop him, he'll get more comfortable from the stripe and start raising that free throw average; and Brad -- come on, people -- Brad is willing to be the guy when we need him to be. He stepped up and nailed that massive three-pointer that pretty much kept us in the game.

What more could we ask from our guys in this game? A victory, of course, but don't you think they wanted it more than any of us? We have to hope they're not discouraged, that there's no hangover from this game, cause we still have some big ones coming up before SEC play. I still feel like I'm watching a better team, bit by bit, with every game that goes by. We ARE getting mentally tough. We ARE starting to get pissed off that people are calling us a disappointment; we ARE GETTING ANGRY at these little piss-ass losses that should be wins.

Let's channel this anger into some arrogance and swagger and ballsiness. Once we start playing like we have nothing to lose, we have nothing to lose.

Bobby O'Shea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
KarenA said...

Well said, literaryman. I think our expectations got a little too high going into the season. I still have great hopes for conference play, especially when the team can play with Fes back. Last night was tough, but it is a lot tougher on the guys playing and trying to win than it is on us. I love this team and I'm going to be there at every home game and watching or listening to every away game,even when it hurts.

Anonymous said...

They never had a chance, but they did play hard. If Tinsley is not a starting SEC point guard, we sure as hell don't have one.

Anonymous said...

Hard loss tonight, but not a terrible one. I thought we played really hard tonight. Appropriately, Stallings shortened the bench. We were finally done in by a lack of quickness. I thought our defense was really good in most areas.

I'm still trying to figure out why Taylor didn't attack the rim at the end of regulation - mystifying. Jenkins stood up tonight. I thought he was gonna close the deal somehow.

Tinsley rebounded from an awful game against Xavier to play really well tonight. To all those people who want K. Johnson starting, I hope tonight opened your eyes a little bit. The poor kid was wide-eyed and all thumbs on the road against stiff man to man defense. He couldn't even get it out of 1st gear. It's gonna take him time to learn the game and get used to the speed. Parker is gonna be a defensive sub only, until he proves he can shoot. His minutes will be sparse against better teams.

Festus might not be a savior, but at least we'll be playing 5 on 5 when he returns. Unfortunately, I thing Steve's ankle is still sub par. He's not even looking to score and his play, in my opinion, has been mediocre. The loss of Henderson will change rotation and sub pattern. Goulbourne is learning to take advantage of mismatches. I really like how he's improving.Odom's play is very important from this point on.

Jason said...

At what point should we begin to evaluate Stallings' performance? Everyone can agree that this is the most talent Vanderbilt has had in years, if not ever. Yet, the flaws of this team coincide with every Stallings team. The problem is that this team lacks a Freije or Byars or Foster to take control and hold people accountable for plays. The only way that Fes' return helps this squad is if he is ready to take on that role, which I doubt.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Folks, but as someone who has watched Vanderbilt basketball for over 40 years (Class of 79); I am almost as ill from reading these comments as from watching another horrible, yet predictable, performance from a Stallings coached team.

Keep up the faith and be loyal to VU; but, do not continue to drink CFS' "Kool Aid". Why do players rarely ever improve under his direction? Why has he only made it to the Sweet 16 on two occasions (NCSt. and Wash. St.) when the team was playing against coaches who are bigger chokes than he? Why has no other athletic director or program, including his own alma mater, sought him out as their new coach?

We have some very athletic players on this squad, but athletic ability does not make a team. We have no glue... no leadership.. no "go to" guy (Shan Foster)... Whose responsibility is that?... What else is he being paid for? He has spent too much time following his son and the St. Louis Cardinals around the country and not enough finding or developing the players we need.

Sorry to rant, but I could not sit on the sidelines anymore. Oh... by the way VU has beaten a Patino coached team (UK) at least once... at Memorial, he was ejected from the game.

Anonymous said...

Sadly, I think this program has reached a plateau that it cannot rise above. I give Coach Stallings and his staff a ton of credit for bringing this program out of the "Jan Van" dark years, and I hope it never goes back to that. I suppose that as a fan I am spoiled by at least getting to the big dance most years now, but I expect more than this from this group of players at this point. I will try to save my criticism of this team until Fes returns, but my gut tells me that there are more fundamental issues with this team than post play. I still expect a deep run in the big dance this year. If not, DW needs to find another James Franklin for basketball.

Anonymous said...

I hope you are right Anonymous... but, I fear we are all going to be quoting the definition of "insanity" around the third week of March, if not sooner.

Fez, one of the few players to really develop under Stallings, is a load for opponents. However, unless he becomes Magic Johnson and gives us something all truly successful teams have.. a quality point guard..I fear we are doomed. I have also been around enough to have my suspicions about Fez's full recovery. He also will be a bit protective of his body (and rightly so) given his possibilites in the NBA draft.

Anonymous said...

1. Im glad there are some sane and intelligent people on this blog that understand Kendren is not a starter, nor even a role player against top competition.
2. Anonymous 40 year Vandy fan: agree with ALMOST everything you said, especially the criticisms of Stallings. Maybe Gene Keady should call and coach him up (we can only hope).
3. The one thing I disagree with is that Shan Foster was NOT a Go To guy. Ever. He gave up far more on defense and through ineffecient selfish play that he ever contributed on offense. Dont let one big MSU game fool you. Derek Byars. Now thats a guy who can lead a team.

Anonymous said...

We need a Beal like go to player.

Anonymous said...

I'm kind of sick of the sky is falling attitude from a lot of the comments. The game last night was incredible. Sure, we lost, but the effort and toughness were unreal. I was terrified of the Yum center watching on espn3. For anyone who's ever played basketball you know how difficult it is to play in such a hostile environment like that against a really good louisville team who's whole gameplan is to out-work and out-tough teams.

Vandy wins if a few small things go our way. A couple more FTs, Kuric misses that tough contested three from the corner in OT, etc. But on the other hand, Vandy made some huge plays when they needed them: Tinsley's three, jenkins all night. I think this team proved that they CAN make big plays when they need them. They didn't fade, they got beat outright. I also don't understand the "I don't want to hear the Wait til Fez" comments. He may not be go-to offensive threat late in games, but that's not the point. The NBA may be like that, but not college basketball. Fez will a) open the floor on offense for our shooters/slashers and b) clean up the class and defend the rim on defense. I am vastly more optimistic that this team will make a deep run in the tourney after last night's game. They showed huge balls and answered the bell.

Owen said...

i liked seeing stallings use timeouts when momentum started to shift and the crowd really got behind the cards. i also liked that the substitution situation wasn't as predictable as usual. kedren had a tough game and it's tough to put a freshman in there to deal with that pressure.

we played a great game in an incredibly tough environment. a few years ago...this would have been one of the games on the calendar where we all new a really awful loss was likely. i really like how we played last night. i'm concerned with the free throws because that just doesn't seem like us. i'm glad jenkins got back on track with his free throws though. i am VERY pleased with lance thus far this year. he looks great and if keeps driving to the basket like that, he is really going to be turning some heads.

we are improving. it's a good feeling. i hated losing that game though!

Vandy Class of 2015 said...

Some of you guys are spineless as fucking jellyfish. One day your saying Kedren (not fucking Kendren btw if your gonna criticize get it fucking right)should start and is alot better then tinsley then the next you say he sucks and cant handle big minutes. We need a bigger sample size on Kedren before we can make a determination so why doesn't everyone stop talking out of their asses and stop fucking trashing him

Anonymous said...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion; however, the comments about "effort and toughness" and the difficult environment at YUM! are just what I am talking about when I use the term "Kool Aid drinkers".

Toughness? Effort? For three years I have watched Jenkins and Taylor become MIA when their skills were most needed, and what about freethrows? Taylor, Tinsley and some others nearly shoot as well from the three point arc as they do from the freethrow line, particularly when the game is on the line.

I know I am dating myself; but, the clutch player we need is another Frank Secker, or even a Kevin Anglin... we have sufficient scoring elsewhere (or should).

Anonymous said...

As I just stated "Class of 2015" everyone is entitled to their opinion... if they do it in a respectful manner. Being a Vanderbilt student, I would hope that you have a better adjective at your disposal than the one you chose to use multiple times.

Sklaw said...

Was at game last night. What a great environment. It had a March feel to it.

We played extremely hard last night and played tough. Just didn't play smart and handed the game to them on a silver platter. That seems to be our MO lately.

Our lack of a post presence was abundantly clear. It has placed a tremendous amount of stress on the perimeter guys which is evident.

Festus was suited up and participated in warm ups. I suspect he will be back in the next week or so. Taylor in person is more frusturating to watch believe it or not. He has so many opportunities to take it to the whole one on one and get fouled and instead passively pulls the ball out.

We need to stop turning the ball over, rebound better, and hope that the addition of Festus in the middle helps offensively and more importantly defensively. I liked how Stallings shortened the bench last night. I also liked that he finally called a timeout when momentum was shifting in the first half. Maybe he learned his lession from Xavier.

Stanimal said...

Alright, slight response to my comment on not disparaging players.

First off, I have never once said anything about Tinsley on a personal level. I've highlighted his limitations but there's no question he's valuable. I also have reiterated time and again that Brad should not be getting substantially less minutes, but that Kedren should get more. Hey, I'll eat my crow, Kedren had a bad game last night. Hence I said, "Tinsley, I'm sorry." I was also wrong to say "bench, you suck." My bad, it happens when you post right after the game.

Second, When I refer to people disparaging players, I was mostly talking about folks tweeting at our guys about how terrible they are and how they've played. That in my opinion is unneccessary. We as fans have every right to voice our opinions about the team, but we should still support the kids who represent our University. There's a difference between critiquing and disparaging.

Anyway, I apologize if that comment rubbed anyone the wrong way, but my stance remains. Don't tweet at the players telling them they suck or are awful. It's not productive for anyone.

Anonymous said...

I don't know how you can say Kedren just had A bad game, whenever he comes in it seems like he makes a lazy mistake. Like against Xavier when we were up and at another point in the game, he makes lazy passes like he's still in HS. There is no doubt in my mind Tinsley is my man(but I'm wondering where is Fuller from lat year, did I miss something).

AspenVU said...

KJ is talented, but as one posting noted he seems to be wide eyed - once the game slows down for him he will be great; it's just different than playing high school ball.

What is the deal with Davidson - seems after 2 loses, we really need to pick up this game.

Vandy Class of 2015 said...

@Stanimal
I wasnt posting at you as much as the comments in general we need to stop making such wide ranging comments on kedrens play until we have a better idea. A good game doesn't neccesarily mean hes the greatest thing since sliced bread and needs to start and a bad game doesn't mean he sucks and needs to be relegated to the fuller zone of people bitching everytime he comes in and same with parker as far as the fuller zone he was recruited mostly for his defense and he's played great defense so far this year his offensive game will develop as he does over the year him and kedren both need time to adjust.

Anonymous said...

What happened to Fuller, anyone know?