Thursday, December 10, 2009

VSL Poll: Should John Jenkins Be Starting?



If you think the answer is yes, who's spot should we be taking?

If you think he shouldn't, how come?

21 comments:

Stanimal said...

I don't think he's quite ready to start yet, and here's three reasons why:

1) The main reason we want to stick Jenkins in is because our team is out of sorts right now, we all view Jenkins in a positive light as the highest ranked recruit in our history, and he hits a big shot or two when we're seemingly down. I hate to say it, but subbing Jenkins in will not change in any way the total effect of the team's performance. There's a reason not everyone is playing at a high level, and it isn't going to get fixed with one guy switching into the lineup. He's not a savior yet folks. Which leads me to my second point....

2) Jenkins was absolutely lights out for the last 7 minutes of the game, but for the first 33 minutes he was still playing like a freshman who's been in college basketball for 8 games. That's not a knock on Jenkins, he's clearly better than your average freshman. I just don't think his play would be a catalyst that would spark the offense. In fact, I think you'd see more ill-advised shots taken.

3) Brad is starting to break out of his shell a little bit. He had a solid game against Illinois and he brings a little more versatility right now that Jenkins doesn't necessarily bring. We're in way too big a hurry to give up on these guys as individuals when we have a lot of games left to play. Let's see how things go over the next few games and re-evaluate.

VandyGold28 said...

no way. it's not time to give up on tinsley. jenkins is not a john wall freshman, he's a vandy freshman that isn't ready for a starting role yet. he's not averaging 15 a game and isn't our best player nor would i say he's necessarily at this point better than any starter.

on another note that's completely unrelated, what's up with mcclellan? i thought he was the same type of glue guy that walker is and would step up as a junior and play even better this year. i'm disappointed in his play.

Anonymous said...

C'mon everyone knows he should be on the floor, just like everyone knows that Constantin Fahlberg stole the invention of saccharin from the deserving Ira Remsen.

Look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_Fahlberg

Anonymous said...

That's complete nonsense! I am with vandygold (although I will continue this post using capitalization). Also, the only thing more inaccurate than thinking that Jenkins should start is believing that Remsen discovered saccharin. For a primer on the magical substance, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharin

Andrew said...

Stanimal's argument rests on the unstated argument that you damage young players by putting them in too early. That argument can be true of quarterbacks but not of any other type of athlete and it's certainly not true of basketball players. You don't get overwhelmed by starting because there are four other players on the floor who take the weight off you in a way that nothing does for a quarterback.

No, playing time doesn't hurt player development. It is what makes players improve, and the more upside a player has the more he benefits from playing time. Will Jenkins come in and be a star? Probably not. But he will come in and be better than the woeful Tinsley and he will get better every game. And the more time he gets to play, the faster he will develop into a star.

If you accept that PT won't damage Jenkins, then there's no reason to keep Tinsly starting. It's simply impossible to argue that he's been the better player this year. He can't get himself open for shots. He can't shoot when no one bothers to cover him. He can't defend. And while he does make some nice passes, he also turns the ball over too much. Tinsley, granted, has been more consistent than Jenkins, but consistently terrible is not really what we're looking for.

Bobby O'Shea said...

Just to be clear, this poll question (despite how it may seem) is not an implicit attack on Tinsely's play (who looked very good against Illinois) or anyone else on the team.

With that said, I think Andrew's point is a good one about playing time not retarding a young players growth in basketball. Jenkins needs to be getting more minutes, whether that's as a starter or coming off the bench.

Jason said...

Aside from the concern of putting too much pressure on a young player too soon, it's important to have offensive weapons coming off the bench. Putting Jenkins in the line-up severely decreases the effectiveness of our second unit (especially since the back-up post players need perimeter shooting threats to create better looks in the paint). I think we all agree that Jenkins will be, if not already is, a better player than Tinsley. But I think the team, as a whole, is better off with Jenkins as 6th/7th man.

Colin said...

Why not put Jenkins in teh starting lineup for Beal? Look this is a young team, maybe we just the gun on crowning them, as ready to challenge. Lot's of you seem to think the end goal is to get the young guys playing time and experience for a conference run and future development, so why jetison one of the young guys in Tinsley who still has alot fo upside and more then half his career in front of him, when we could take out the lone senior whose only argument for whom the only argument for keeping in the starting lineup is that he might not have been quite as bad as tinsley so far? A point which I'm not entirely sure I believe through this point in the season. Admit it, you all are starting to come around on my opinion of Beal. The obvious argument then is who brings the ball up court? Is Taylor an option? Maybe this is a way to get him more invovled in the offense, and he's certainly atheltic enough and if he's really as legit as we all think should have the handle to do so. It shouldn't be that ahrd for us to find someone to fill in Beals insanely amazing ability to dribble up court, go between his legs, dribble agresively at the top of the key and then stare someone down before passing to them.

Stanimal said...

Actually, my argument isn't at all premised on damaging his development by sticking him in there too early. If I thought that, then I would say experience is the only factor, and that Jenkins should be sitting on the bench for the entirety of the game while Hinkle comes in.

My argument, if anything, is more protective of Tinsley than it is of Jenkins. Frankly that's one of the reasons I voiced it. It is simply amazing to me how people are unwilling to accept that a player who is EIGHT GAMES INTO HIS SOPHOMORE SEASON might not have hit his ceiling yet. Furthermore, it amazes me that they are so apt to immediately displace him with a player that is EVEN YOUNGER than he is. Sure, Jenkins can shoot the lights out, but he goes through bad stretches, just like Brad goes through bad stretches.

Jenkins averages 20 minutes a game, Tinsley is playing about 9 minutes a game running the point, meaning he's only playing shooting guard about 19 minutes a game. I'll agree that Jenkins should get more than 20 minutes a game, but I don't think it should be cut out of Tinsley's time, because he does a lot of good things on the floor. He just didn't do them until last Tuesday.

Seamus O'Toole said...

Colin, ease up friend. Your Beal-hating is simply not supported by facts. The guy led the SEC in A/T ratio his sophomore year (3rd nationally) and was #2 in conference (just shy of the leader) last year, which is all the more impressive when you consider that we couldn't BUY a 3-pointer in 08-09. Tinsley has committed almost twice as many turnovers as Beal in fewer minutes this season. What does Tinsley's upside have to do with anything? You put your best players on the court, plain and simple.

The answer to getting a talented freshman more minutes is not to bench your most experienced player who has commanded your offense for the past two seasons.

Stanimal said...

I hate to reiterate this point, but I think we're all looking at one player as being responsible for the rather lackluster play of the past two games. Like I've said time and time again, it's a collective, and I'm not sure it truly is the fault of any one player.

I'll say one thing though, we, as a team, need to start recognizing that the only number that matters is the number on the scoreboard at the end of the game, and not the number that fills your stat sheet.

Anonymous said...

Jenkins is one of the best players on the team, he needs to play more. If that means Tinsley needs to sit more, so be it.

The End.

Colin said...

Really, we are going with the A/T ratio? That is such a meaningless stat, and fails to factor in so many things. Example: Beal stares down AJ throws it in, AJ gets a touch on it before getting double teamed because everyone on the court knew where it was going and the pass was mediocre, Beal doesn't get a turnover but should. Even if your argument is that he is the leader and settles our offense and makes it run, doesn't that undermine your argument for him starting given how bad our offense has been? I don't see how that is a pro at this point. He is the general and organizer of an offense that barely moves and never looks comfortable or settled? You guys think Tinsley should keep playing and maturing and that Jenkins should play more and gain experience, so I don't see how doing both those things at the expense of Beal's minutes is a bad thing. He's a senior he is what he's going to be and right now that's not getting it done. If nothing else Beal was great coming off the bench early in his career, so whose to say he wouldn't thrive in that role. I just can;t say that he's shown me anything this year or last to indicate that he is top dog material, so why force it? Also while AJ should be mroe vocal and dominate it's not his fault that he's not a post presence if we regularly go 5 straight possessions without ever trying to get him the ball low.

Andrew VU '04 said...

I'm laughing my ass off at the saccharin reference and ensuing debate. This is why you have to love Vanderbilt sports fans.

Beale's got Russel Lakey/Mario Moore syndrome. Bringing up his A/T ratio from his sophomore year, hence, has no relevance. Go with a Tinsley and Jenkins backcourt for a few cupcake games and see what we've got.

Seamus O'Toole said...

Beal is not Russell Lakey or Mario Moore. Bringing up their names, hence, has no relevance.

E. Adams said...

For me, the debate is the simple aggressiveness of the two players.

After Tinsley scored 10 quick points, he still looked timid. He passed up a couple looks that I thought he would want to take.

I like that fact that Jenkins has a "give me the stinking ball and I'll drain it" attitude. I want THAT guy starting and stretching defenses.

Anonymous said...

tinsley is not in a shell. The only thing that he was on tuesday night is that he was better than he's been in the last couple or so games.Beal took shots and missed.Beal dished to others and they missed. Beal was surrounded with seniors who could shoot and handled the ball 3 years AGO. As a senior he doesn't have that benefit and thus has a lot on his shoulders so give him some credit.

Anonymous said...

start jenkins for brad because he's not in a shell.

busey said...

jenkins has never come off the bench in his life. he's used to being the guy. just from a personality perspective i think brad would be more comfortable in a bench role. I say start jenkins, but don't be afraid to use brad to either spell him or beal. his flexibility makes him a perfect sub for either depending on how a game is going. i think brad's been playing better so starting jenkins isn't necessarily a slight to brad.

GREY said...

hey i know yall dont really care due to its coming from a 14 year old, but ive followed vanderbilt for almost 10 years now and John Jenkins is a phenomenal shooter and a great defensive player...he doesnt have enough size to take Andre Walkers place but i do think he should keep getting the amount of experience he is getting. Brad Tinsley and Jermaine Dolla Beal are the veteran gaurds (altough Tins is only a sophmore) and they should b getting the starts...If an injury were to occur on one of the two he would defintly be ready to fill in. WE all know he can shoot i just dont think he has enough experience to beat out brad though we might see it happen tomorrow...I think next year he will easily be a starter and a huge contributor to the team...now im still trying to figure out whats wrong with the team right now...we have the talent but aren't playing as a team and not very agreesivly... CKS needs to make some changes or something because we have not played to full potential all seasoon...give credit to Illinois they did shoot the ball very well but a slow start kind of killed us...hopefully Coach can make changes where necesarry and get things worked out before the SEC play rolls around...lastly id just like to say im a regular on this website and i really appreciate what yall are doing-Bobby and the team and lets GO DORES

Stanimal said...

Your opinions are always appreciated and welcomed. Keep on coming by and feel free to discuss anytime!