Friday, July 11, 2008

Discussion Forum: What Do We Do With The Big 4?

It's been far too quiet around here at VSL nation, with myself and Douglas James blowing up the discussion threads and Bobby, Seamus, and our beloved intern trying desperately to find the proverbial diamond Vanderbilt story in the rough off-season of college sports. Don't worry VSL faithful, we will be bringing you plenty of entertainment next week with our football preview of the Dores.

In the meantime, I want to talk about what is arguably the most exciting thing in Vanderbilt sports: Vanderbilt basketball's new Big 4. I admit as a rather recent Vanderbilt alum, I have no concept of the olden days of Vanderbilt basketball. As the first one of my family to go to school there, I had no connection to Vanderbilt sports as a kid. But from what I know now, which I like to think is a decent amount, we have never had a more exciting incoming class. If someone can name the last time we had a #13 recruiting class, please let me know, but for the life of me I can't think of it.

So, that being said, we've got four extremely talented players coming in, coupled with the steal of the recruiting year in Croc OG, and the lights out shooting capability of John Jenkins for next year's class.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget just how successful this team has been. Two sweet sixteens in five seasons is nothing to sneeze at. Not to mention we have had the SEC Player of the Year not one year, but two years in a row (get over yourselves AP, Coaches count just as much). Heck last year's team was the second winningest behind the 92-93 team.

Now that I have forced you to read this far (and thank you for that if you still are reading), just what do we do with the Big 4? In the crazy world of college sports and the heightened scrutiny of recruiting, there's always the question of how fast you push these kids into the limelight. Julian Terrell was a Rivals four-star recruit, and though he had a decent career as a Dore, you got the feeling that he never met the expectations we had for him. On the flip side, both Byars and Foster more than lived up to the hype surrounding them.

It's no secret that we have some holes to fill, but our current roster is not devoid of talent. Andre Walker played well for us last year, George Drake, who was also a Rivals four-star, has shown flashes of his potential, and then you've got the returning starters, "Dolla" Beal and the big man Ogilvy. On another note, there's tremendous potential in Festus Ezeli, who has incredible size but was a little bit too raw to contribute last year.

What I want to know is, who's going to contribute the most and who's got some learning to do? As much as I'd love to throw all the kids into the fire I have to worry a bit if that's the best solution right away.

So I open it up to you Commie fans, what do we do?

54 comments:

Douglas James said...

Tinsley has no other options. He needs to contribute right away in two positions. First he is our only option as backup point guard, you figure he needs to put in 10 mins a game min at the 1. Secondly he might very well be our best option at the 2 as well. Hopefully Drake, Hinkle can step up in the 2 hole. Like Tinsley I think Tshiengang has to contribute quickly as well because the lack of a real power foward on the team. Though maybe if Festus has progressed he and AJ can makeup for the lack of a true 4 among returning players. Then comes what I think will be the most interesting battle. Walker and McClellan had solid freshman campaigns and I think both can put up solid #'s but niether blew me away with their athleticism. They are going to have to use this one year of knowledge to fight off what I think are the most talents portions of the incoming class. From everything I have seen I think Jeff "The sweedish sensation" Taylor starts from day one and puts up scoring #'s similar to Shan's freshman year (9-11 points a game). I think Lance will end up a sort of hybrid 2/3 wing guy. I have talked about this before but we will have a huge height advantage on most teams this year, especially if we have Gouldbourne, Taylor, Tshiengang, AJ and Dolla on the court together. Hopefully we don't come across too many really quick guards because while we have the height not sure we have the lateral quickness. In the end I think Taylor contributes 10 a game, while Lance, Steve and Brad contribute in the 5-7 a game region (I think Brad will contribute some assists and hopefully Steve is banging the boards).

Bobby O'Shea said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bobby O'Shea said...

This is the best kind of blogging, because it is based entirely on conjecture and opinion. Still, I would be surprised if more than one of the recruits was starting when the season started. That's not to say that won't change as the season progresses, but I think the starting line-up will look like this:

PG: Beal (Tinsley back-up)
SG: Drake (Taylor)
SF: Tshiengang (Taylor or Gouldbourne)
PF: Andre Walker (Darshawn, although this could be flipped)
C: Croc (Festivus)

I look forward to Stan telling me why I'm wrong shortly

Douglas James said...

Drake hasn't shown me anything to make me think he can start. Also Tshiengang didn't have too strong a senior year, so i don't think he starts over Taylor especially since we are losing so much scoring and beal is a pass first guard

Stanimal said...

The moment you waited for Bobby, here's why you're wrong.

Basing this off the line-up we're going to see at the beginning of the year, I think that Tinsley and Taylor are probably the only two who have a chance to start right away. Surprisingly, however, I agree with your backcourt assessment. Beal's solidified at the 1, and I think Drake's got his chance to show us what he can do. His experience puts him one up on the new guys, but he's going to have Tinsley on his tail so he really must produce this year.

I really disagree with your assessment at the three. I just don't see us bringing Tchiengang out to the 3 unless we decide to go real big, in which case I think you'll see Ezeli out there at the 4. The only returning player that could fill that 3 role in my mind is Walker. I think this position is the most likely spot where we will have a freshman starter, with either Taylor or Goulbourne stepping in.

At the 4, I agree that Walker or McClellan will get the nod with Tchiengang getting significant minutes here. There's also the possibility of Festus playing some time here too, but we will see.

And obviously you have Ogilvy at the 5. Festus provides an interesting post-dynamic and if you see him and Ogilvy sharing some minutes down low I'm not sure a lot of teams will know how to handle that.

I share Doug's concern with lateral quickness though, aside from Jamie Graham I don't know too much about our ability to keep up with speed.

Douglas James said...

Vandy average'd 80 points a game and between guys who graduated and "And-1" leaving we are losing 47.4 of those points. You read that right 47.4 a game!!!! How do we replace that production? Who is most likely to take the leap forward among returning guys? Last year we were spoiled with an amazing freshman year from AJ. Chances of something like that happening again, even with such a great class, is very slim.

Bobby O'Shea said...

While replacing the scoring is key, the reality is tjat last year's team was not very good defensively.

Vanderbilt doesn't need to average 80 a game if they can hold opponents to under the 74.6 they allowed last season. If the defense can be more stout, than you don't need to replace as much of the scoring. Still, with the crop coming in, and the guys we have returning, I don't see any reason why they can't make up 40 points, putting you at about 73 a game. Get the defense down to 65 or 66 points a game, and we are in business.

Stanimal said...

That is a disheartening stat and I don't think you can expect that same production out of this year's team. I mean, seasons like last year don't happen ALL the time.

But you also gotta remember just how much of that 47.4 points was Foster. Red brought in around 11 points a game with Foster averaging right at 20, with the next best being Neltner at 8. Foster had to put the team solely on his back at times as well. I don't think you're going to have a situation like that with this class. It might not make up for it in the first year, but you've got so many more weapons all around than last years team had. Last year it was the Foster-Ogilvy show with Red stepping up and Beal putting in some clutch buckets. I think we can spread that around a little more with the new guys.

That being said, Ogilvy has to be our primary threat next year. These guys are going to need some time to adjust to the college game and he's going to have to help us while the fearsome foursome endure the learning curve.

Stanimal said...

Completely agree with you Bobby. The big problem was defense last year. We couldn't stop anyone on the other end, very different from our performance the year prior.

Douglas James said...

I have to admit when I think about the guys coming in and where they fit in the lineup I mostly think of an efficient offense not an imposing defense. Anybody know what these guys defensive talents are? Can Goulbourne cover a guard? Is Brad quick enough to cover the opposing PG? Do you see us putting Tshiengang/Walker/McClellan on the opposing teams big man to help AJ stay out of foul trouble?

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